![[Tier List] UPDATED! Watches for an upper middle class professional with responsibilities -- Read the description!](https://alien.top/pictrs/image/4fe402c2-5efb-4f61-b2ea-194e9b735591.webp){kind=link}
where citizen
After the incredible amount of reactions and feedback from the last tier list I created, I wanted to do an update based on comments that changed my mind and, hopefully, a better structuring of the tiers!
I put it in the description, but a reminder that this isn’t a tier list to decide which brand is the most valuable, makes the best watch, is the best bang for buck. It’s about what watches
people in a specific situation (which I imagine a fair number of watch enthusiasts fall into) should consider!Argue away!
What does whelming watches mean? Bad?
Nope it provides the value the cost would indicate
Sinn is def not a bang for buck and I am german living in Frankfurt 😭
Agreed, blows my mind that people still cream their jeans for a $2500 856 lol
RM over AP ? 😭😭😭
Absolutely a bizarre list but, NO. Horribly stated. Casio and Timex do not belong in the same category and the structure of this list is near disrespectful. Patek (although outrageously expensive) is far more than just an FU watch and rightfully so.
This reads like cope, enjoy your Cartier/omega/grand seiko/zenith/piaget.
Such a list is pointless because it differs between everyone’s situation(and no, upper middle class with responsibilities is not specific).
I could never buy a Zenith because of the word association to those crappy old tube TVs
And whenever I see Christopher Ward I think of that annoying IT guy that’s getting his first real watch because he realized that his Apple Watch didn’t actually help him get in shape. They’re interesting but to me they’re the Skechers of the watch world
Just my input into the few things I disagree with. But my favorite brands (Omega, Nomos, Oris, Junghans, Hamilton) are in here and exactly where I’d put them, so great job.
Probably just a US thing cos I have never heard of such a thing until I researched Zenith’s (Watchmaker) history.
Where is citizen??
Gotta be Bang for Buck/just buy tier, especially with 2023’s releases
Ooo which ones?
IWC and Breitling are definitely within the price range of Omega and Cartier.
RIP my Versace watch collection 😭😭😭
I am **really** sorry!!
I generally like this list.
I wish Sinn’s 903 Navitimer had better attention to detail like actually make the slide rule hash marks line up flush. I would totally buy.
I also love Seiko and would put that in Just buy. You literally cannot go wrong.
Citizen should also go bang for buck tier and I want to see what people think of cult classic Vostok (love mine)
Thank you very much!
I totally forgot Citizen, my bad!! I didn’t include Vostok because I figured that in the general contexts that an upper-middle class professional works in, wearing a russian watch in current times would be a limiting career move.
Have you watched the TV show “Severance”? He wears a Vostok
Would add Laco and Stowa in bang for buck. Omega, zenith seem too expensive for truly middle class professional. For me that tops out at longines which isn’t a bad place to be!
$200k in Manhattan vs $200k in St. Louis are two very different things.one puts omega in play and the other does not.
If you’re single making 200k in Manhattan you can absolutely afford an Omega.
Premise of the original post assumes you have a family and associated normal expenses.
After 10% retirement savings you’re still not maxing your 401k, so call it 180k pre-tax income. That puts you in 22% federal bracket or 14.0% effective federal tax rate assuming standard deduction. Add on FICA, NY state income tax and NY City income tax, your total tax burden is about 29.06% at that income. Assuming standard deductions, your take home pay after retirement and taxes is somewhere around $128k per year.
OP said 2-3 kids so lets call it 2.5 kids at $2k per kid per year for college savings (a popular rule of thumb). If you have a family you’re paying for a multi-bedroom place. Median rent Manhattan was $5,588 in mid-2023. USDA publishes costs of groceries for a family of 4 (Thrifty plan, low cost plan, moderate cost plan, and liberal budget) since we’re talking about luxury goods here lets go with the USDA liberal budget of $1,583/mo.
OP also specified vacations - I’d guess someone making 200k buying a luxury watch will spend above average on vacations, but lets just go with national average here. Forbes publishes an estimate for national average cost of a family of 4 to vacation at $3,609 for a 3-day trip and $6,144 for a week-long trip. Lets assume one 1-week vacation and one 3-day vacation per year.
OP also specified said charity - obviously highly discretionary but for the sake of argument it looks like Americans donate about 1.7% of income to charity, so lets call that $3,400/yr.
So, assuming you have zero student loan debt, that sill leaves you with about $23,800k per year or $1,983/month on ALL other costs. I didn’t even get into utilities, cell phone, insurance (rental, life, auto). All this could quickly get you down towards the $1,200-$1,500 per month range of truly discretionary spending availability. That is what you would have to spend on any childcare, babysitters, restaurants, date nights or other entertainment, all clothing for multiple people, spending on any hobbies other non-vacation travel (to visit friends and family), or anything else.
So could you save up for it over time? sure, though I have a hard time seeing it. You would have to prioritize that particular watch (as opposed to a similar but less expensive watch) as more important than many other things your family would enjoy.
I’m still fairly sure you can afford Omega on $200k in Manhattan
Premise of the original post assumes you have a family and associated normal expenses.
After 10% retirement savings you’re still not maxing your 401k, so call it 180k pre-tax income. That puts you in 22% federal bracket or 14.0% effective federal tax rate assuming standard deduction. Add on FICA, NY state income tax and NY City income tax, your total tax burden is about 29.06% at that income. Assuming standard deductions, your take home pay after retirement and taxes is somewhere around $128k per year.
OP said 2-3 kids so lets call it 2.5 kids at $2k per kid per year for college savings (a popular rule of thumb). If you have a family you’re paying for a multi-bedroom place. Median rent Manhattan was $5,588 in mid-2023. USDA publishes costs of groceries for a family of 4 (Thrifty plan, low cost plan, moderate cost plan, and liberal budget) since we’re talking about luxury goods here lets go with the USDA liberal budget of $1,583/mo.
OP also specified vacations - I’d guess someone making 200k buying a luxury watch will spend above average on vacations, but lets just go with national average here. Forbes publishes an estimate for national average cost of a family of 4 to vacation at $3,609 for a 3-day trip and $6,144 for a week-long trip. Lets assume one 1-week vacation and one 3-day vacation per year.
OP also specified said charity - obviously highly discretionary but for the sake of argument it looks like Americans donate about 1.7% of income to charity, so lets call that $3,400/yr.
So, assuming you have zero student loan debt, that sill leaves you with about $23,800k per year or $1,983/month on ALL other costs. I didn’t even get into utilities, cell phone, insurance (rental, life, auto). All this could quickly get you down towards the $1,200-$1,500 per month range of truly discretionary spending availability. That is what you would have to spend on any childcare, babysitters, restaurants, date nights or other entertainment, all clothing for multiple people, spending on any hobbies other non-vacation travel (to visit friends and family), or anything else.
So could you save up for it over time? sure, though I have a hard time seeing it. You would have to prioritize that particular watch (as opposed to a similar but less expensive watch) as more important than many other things your family would enjoy.
I don’t know why you are being downvoted for being able to do math
Oh please, yes ny is more expensive but 200k a year is enough for anything
Premise of the original post assumes you have a family and associated normal expenses.
After 10% retirement savings you’re still not maxing your 401k, so call it 180k pre-tax income. That puts you in 22% federal bracket or 14.0% effective federal tax rate assuming standard deduction. Add on FICA, NY state income tax and NY City income tax, your total tax burden is about 29.06% at that income. Assuming standard deductions, your take home pay after retirement and taxes is somewhere around $128k per year.
OP said 2-3 kids so lets call it 2.5 kids at $2k per kid per year for college savings (a popular rule of thumb). If you have a family you’re paying for a multi-bedroom place. Median rent Manhattan was $5,588 in mid-2023. USDA publishes costs of groceries for a family of 4 (Thrifty plan, low cost plan, moderate cost plan, and liberal budget) since we’re talking about luxury goods here lets go with the USDA liberal budget of $1,583/mo.
OP also specified vacations - I’d guess someone making 200k buying a luxury watch will spend above average on vacations, but lets just go with national average here. Forbes publishes an estimate for national average cost of a family of 4 to vacation at $3,609 for a 3-day trip and $6,144 for a week-long trip. Lets assume one 1-week vacation and one 3-day vacation per year.
OP also specified said charity - obviously highly discretionary but for the sake of argument it looks like Americans donate about 1.7% of income to charity, so lets call that $3,400/yr.
So, assuming you have zero student loan debt, that sill leaves you with about $23,800k per year or $1,983/month on ALL other costs. I didn’t even get into utilities, cell phone, insurance (rental, life, auto). All this could quickly get you down towards the $1,200-$1,500 per month range of truly discretionary spending availability. That is what you would have to spend on any childcare, babysitters, restaurants, date nights or other entertainment, all clothing for multiple people, spending on any hobbies other non-vacation travel (to visit friends and family), or anything else.
So could you save up for it over time? sure, though I have a hard time seeing it. You would have to prioritize that particular watch (as opposed to a similar but less expensive watch) as more important than many other things your family would enjoy.
You’re high on meth if you have 2-3 kids and spend almost $5,600/mo on rent with a $200k HHI. It’s feasible for a single person, but most families making that much would not be living in Manhattan. NJ or one of the outer boroughs will get you a decent place for like $3,500/mo.
Are you trying to make me pity someone making 200k?
I don’t think that is the implication at all. I’m simply laying out numbers. This budget is still awesome and leads to a comfortable life. But the numbers are the numbers.
Couple of suggestions. I want so badly to love Junghans… I’ve owned half a dozen or so, but most have had at least one issue. Misaligned hands, poorly lubricated movements, screws missing on caseback, etc. While there is potential, I think they need to look into their QC before qualifying as a bang for buck watch. Yes they’re reasonably priced and look good, but only if they work. Second, and this I recognize is much more subjective, but I believe Autodromo belongs on this list under bang for buck. And before you start screaming at me about Miyota movements, I will defend them against the 2824 and Powermatic all day. Even if you disagree, and even if you disagree with the ethos or don’t love the designs, you gotta respect the execution, which, of the 5 I’ve owned, has been impeccable. And they actually hold most of their value, at least so far. I would put the execution as high as any brand south of Omega.
What about Vostok?
I’ll be honest, I didn’t see most upper-middle class professionals wanting to wear that. Especially in a white-collar environment with current relations with Russia.
Poor quality, facist origin. Is there a tier for that?
Facist? Or fascist?
Yea you spelled fascist wrong 😂