Hi, my name is Manuel. I have loved everything related with peripherals since I was a kid. Now that I am older and have my own money I can spend it as my mom says on “nonsenses”. I love keyboards and I have owned differente types of them, however I never had the time or money to be buying and trying different switches, stabs, cases… Now that I am looking forward to build my very own custom keyboard (ck) I am realizing of some stuff that really makes me feel uneasy.
While surfing through the reddit, some of the well known keyboard websites I realised that building your ck is very very expensive. Because of that I went straight to aliexpress, bought myself a hotswap keyboard which had a case that I liked. Looked for some switches, I bought Silent Tactile TOMs, and a set of keycaps of PBT, which as far I know is the best between PBT and ABS, the most common plastics keycaps are made of. Also I bought a coiled cable that costed me only 5$, compared to other sites where the price of a simple coiled cable are more than 20$. And a foam.
I build a “custom keyboard” for only 53$, which leads me to lots of questions. Why simple 60% whiteout cases from etsy or kbd, and similar shops sell them for nearly 50 or 60$. Yes, there are better materials, but is it not overpriced? Why sets of keycaps you could buy in aliexpress for 20$ less are sold way pricier in these shops, I am aware of dropshippers but it is way overpriced and sadly and surprisingly very concurred by people looking to buy their custom keyboard.
Is the keyboard market way overpriced? I see pcb plates listing for 60$ and I do not see a very critical difference. The only thing I am okay on spending money are switches and stabs, but why I should spend nearly a 100$ on a wooden case? Or 60$ on “artisan keycap” which is probably dropshipped or made for less than 5$? Why is etsy so used if there are lots of dropshippers? Even shops as kbd and someothers sell way overpriced keycaps sets that I do not think are very different to the ones I could buy on aliexpress?.
Am I too pinchpenny? Are there heavy arguments of why I should spend lots of money on a simple case? Or even on a set of keycaps?. A build as Wooting 60HE could be done with the plate and the same switches, and maybe using some config firmware programs?
If anyone is wondering about the keyboard I built, here it is…
Most of the expensive items are focused around either a specific experience, a specific aesthetic, or a more “premium” manufacturing process with higher quality control standards.
For example, my main keyboard, a Bisoromi RS60, was over $400. I bought it because I like the design, the history behind it, and the attention to detail that this keyboard has. It’s a beautiful shape, it feels good to typeon, and it has everything I need in a keyboard. I definitely paid more than what the materials and manufacturing cost alone warrant, but I paid a premium for a great design from a designer whose work I appreciate. (and as another note, since it was made as a smaller run, each unit cost far more than something mass-produced in the tens of thousands.) To me, that was worth it.
Or look at Geon’s keyboards. Those are made with specific design intentions and quality control standards, they look beautiful, and Geon is incredibly transparent with designing, manufacturing, and selling processes. They pioneer new mounting and assembly techniques, and have innovations that spread across the entire keyboard lanscape. Many people buy Geon boards to be near the cutting edge, or to get something groundbreaking compared to everyday keyboards.
GMK keycaps, as another example, cost a lot more than a regular set of ABS keycaps. But in buying GMK, you’re probably: 1) supporting a specific designer who created the colors and novelties, instead of buying a stolen design. 2) buying a keyset made in Germany, from a well-known manufacturer that has a decades-long legacy in keycap manufacturing, and 3) getting a (relative) quality guarantee, instead of taking a gamble on what could potentially be thin, inconsistent, or otherwise unsatisfactory keycaps from a random factory in China. (And yes, I know, GMK has issues with spacebars and duplicate keys sometimes. You don’t have to tell me. This is just s general example.)
Typically, buying something more expensive isn’t going to net you an equal improvement in quality. Buying premium components will have incredibly diminishing returns. However, there are aspects of premium components that you can’t get from “budget” ones, and those usually involve greater quality control and artistry, along with new or novel designs that take a risk to try something different. And while those things may not command a premium for you, they do for a lot of other people, hence why there is an entire market for premium components that most people will simply see as overpriced compared to the cheapest “good” item possible.
Compare it to cars: Sure, you can get a Toyota for half the price of a BMW, and it will get you from point A to point B just as well, but a lot of people prefer the BMW because of its improved user experience (through both performance and tactile feel) and the brand’s legacy. It’s definitely not twice as much car, but a lot of people would gladly pay twice as much for the improvements, especially if they know a good amount about cars and what they specifically like.
Sometimes, things that are expensive, are worse.
Truth is you can knock together a decent custom keyboard with chinese parts that’ll feel just as good as a $2000 monstrosity. After a certain point, its pretty much just a flex and sunk cost fallacy.
Haha didn’t think I’d see a Caleb Gallo reference here
You’re getting numbers out of your ass.
That’s a lot of hobbies. Diminishing returns and also just bad products that are overpriced.
You ever used a $2000 keyboard?
I mean people dont buy a $2000 for its feel lol, its for the design. I think people forget that.
But you cannot build a board made from Chinese AliExpress parts that feels like a $2000 keyboard. That’s just people talking crap.
No idea why he singled out China anyway, as some of the finest CNC work you’ll see on keyboards comes out of China, so I can also assume he meant cheap AliExpress stuff, and not just because it’s Chinese.
I think he just means cheap stuff lol, because there are $2000 boards on aliexpress or people who are willing to cnc them for you.
This guy obviously knows nothing and just got his information from one or two youtube videos
Exactly with china I ment cheap stuff like 20$ cases or 10$ keycaps sets. I should have explained my self better about what I ment “china”. Thx fro sharing your thoughts SXLighting :) I do know that there a brands which create, desing and produce their own stuff but as far as I know there is a little number of them. :)
just not true at all
tfw downvoted for being right. find me a keyboard that feels like a beam spring for $400 and get back to me
Mostly its due to fancy materials and design. Like a $2000 keyboard (not aftermarket price) will be like stainless steel or titanium or bronze alloy. Very different material to standard brass and aluminum.
You need to define Chinese parts because most of the game is Chinese part excepts for gmk and vint cherry
Fuckin, exactly, it comes out of the same factory with a different name and costs twice as mu
Fuckin, exactly, it comes out of the same factory with a different name and costs twice as mu
Get quote from Dadesin for making 5000 keyboards. Now get a quote from Dadesin for making 100.
Stop talking out of your ass.
This is what a lot of people don’t understand about sites like Temu, Alliexpress, and Shiene. These places are basically a direct from factory sort of deal. Which is why you can get things so cheap.
From my limited knowledge on the topic:
Normally a company/person has something they want to make and then they pay for the shipping (the big crate that sits on a boat), the manufacturing, retail space, and then even the storage. Manufacturing is usually done in china. All this gets factored into the cost of the product with also a hefty mark up.
From what I understand its similar to the way Amazon works. And how anyone can become a store and sell shit on their site.
These chinese sellers are owned by big corporations that can buy in massive bulk. They maybe even own the manufacturing plant and may already have extra storage. So these costs were already paid for. So for them getting out excess product. Just helps them offset costs and make a little bit more.
Some other nefarious things is that since copyright is hard to enforce in china. These manufacturers can make products that are for known brands and also then release basically identical knock offs. Since its all coming from the same place anyways.
I mean there is some expensive keyboards made in China that are worth their prices. But for some parts yeah some cheap alternatives are good.
again, you’re coming up with things out of your ass.
I was gonna write something detailed, but I think it’s the fact that some people just want “the finer things”.
HAHAHAHAH, I do think you and I have something in common, we are both very practical and want things that work well. Any recommendation of “not so finer things” I should look forward to buy for my next build?
Honestly I think you want to set a budget. And also, you’re really gonna wanna save up to $200~ for something of a high quality- most of these people are small companies, and so they can’t sell cheap. For instance, a Bakeneko65, one of the most popular beginner boards, is $150, and rightfully so. It’s a good quality, pretty, and simple frame that does nothing “wrong”. And then once you consider Aliexpress is like factory -> consumer, vs others who are a middleman, you get less profit margin worries there. I spent $350 total on my 2 boards- both are extremely practical builds. My first is a gaming board w/ green switches, it’s a simple, $150 build with all the basic mods (foam, etc), and it’s made to be pretty, but be hella responsive. My second, $200, is a split keyboard with more custom keycaps and so on. I could’ve spent only $160 on it, but I splurged on an artwork, and making it fit perfectly for me. Had I chosen the cheaper option, it wouldn’t be “ideal”.
In the end we need a budget, a design goal, and to realize this is a niche hobby with majority indie companies who don’t have the scaled economy to produce shit en masse, and are perfecting an artwork, not just a product. If you want practical and cheap, you could buy a membrane, or a $50 Logitech G (it’s on sale rn!) for instance. Its quality won’t be as high, its aesthetics and fine design isn’t as detailed, but it does a job well enough. And also, it’s really hard to trust Aliexpress- I’ve gotten scam things and high quality hand soldered stuff there. So it’s hard to make suggestions and so on for “super budget” of $50~. $300< is what I’m used to as the standard range, as it’s where the majority of good quality, good design things are found.
Thx man for sharing your experience, I may be quite simple thats why is hard for me to understand however, thx to everybody who shared their opinion in this post taught me lots of things. Right know im looking forward to buying a keycron whith a metal case, is it a good option? Right know they are on sale so I may be able to buy on of those for lees than a 100$, any recommendation?
Keychron is the ideal begineer pick imo. Good quality, good everything, fits all budgets. Choose what you like and can afford, then you can slowly mod it, buy new switches (Akko’s are amazing!), switch out the keycaps, maybe add a mod, etc.
I’ve been neck deep in this hobby for nearly 5 years and after 25ish boards, i’ve found that people fall into one of 2 groups. Either you’re reasonable and find the one or 2 boards you need for work/gaming/daily life and to get things done, you can get all of the functionality for under 150 easy even if it’s a 100% Or you enjoy keyboards like others enjoy cars, art, or shoes. You find and buy the things that stand out to you and make you happy. Anything past the $150-200 price tag is purely buying as a piece of art you want. I, along with a lot of other people here fall into the second group where we buy pieces of art and enjoy using, displaying and posting them online. Hope this helps :)
Wow, thx u man for showing me your viewpoint. Did not thought about keyboards as art, however now that I “made my self” a keyboard I really want to make another one just to experiment different switches, cases, mods… So I would say from here to a couple months I may be trapped in the second group. Right not I own a couple of keyboards, an akko, a ducky one2mini I bought nearly 5 years ago, and the one I just made, but my mind is still not satisfied and I am looking to build another one, any recommendations?! I like low pitched switch sound such as nk creams and holy pandas. But i am looking for some not as mainstreamed and used. Thx for helping me and hope you can help me once again :)
For another board, depends on the budget I suppose. Something easy and always in stock is the Keychron Q series, any size you like with stock keycaps larger than cherry, so the sound will be deeper. I have a set of nk creams with swapped out stems + springs if you’d like a better set, normal creams are very scratchy unless a lot of time is put into lubing them. If you have a higher budget, cannonkeys has their brutal series, but they won’t come with keycaps. If you do look into those, check to make sure you’re getting a hotswap PCB unless you specifically want a solder board.
Wowoowow thx u man, I have looked into Keycron website and there are lots of different options to pick, and the price is not very expensive. Thx u for the advice, from now on I will avoid creams. I know that there are some autolube switches (The POMs I bought), are there any specific switch you would recommend me?
For linear, gateron milky yellows for budget or oil kings for closer to .55-.60 a switch. Tactility depends on what kind of bump you want. For a little bump, cherry browns are good, for heavy, wuque heavy tactiles are good. For medium weight, akko has some good options, my pick would be V3 cream blue pros. there are a lot of options, just make sure you’re good with the weight of the spring and the price. NK creams are make of just UHMWPE which is a weird thing that works in bits and pieces but it’s not magic.
Saved this comment for when I save some more money and try buy all of them, I do really like akko switches, and gaterons too. I think i will stick wit gateron milky yellows and buy them for the next build. Thx for the advice :)
Totally ! Happy to help :)
yeah i fall into the first group functionally, but dont get me wrong i appreciate and enjoy the beautiful custom pieces from group 2, i just dont have the time or money to get into fully custom keyboards, waiting for group buys ect.
im looking into a keychron wireless that ill mod out a bit for work and on the go, then ive got a ducky board i gave a thorough spa day too, foam in the case, tape on the pcb, bandaids under the stabs, lubed everything thoroughly and finished off with a new set of keycaps for, i am temped to get a tofu aluminium case for the ducky but thats for another day, need work keeb first to go with my logitech mx master (really quite fond of this mouse as a daily driver outside of my home)
Definitely fall into the second group as well. I only have 3 custom keyboards, but all of them have a theme/aesthetic to them that I love. They are all 100% considered art in their own way to me and that has definitely been a big factor with some more expensive boards I’ve gotten.
That’s the same point I’ve reached after 30+ boards, looking for the few boards that really speak to you and are more something you look forward to seeing and enjoy using rather than just a tool has made the few that I get worth it all the more. I’m jealous you got there so much faster than I, but you’ve saved yourself a couple years of waiting and a few thousand dollars lol. My personal magnum opus right now is the Deuterium Delta and it’s everything I’ve wanted in a keyboard.
Exactly! I love bringing my Rama to work and I have a mint qk75 that matches my whole PC set up at home and couldn’t be happier with both since they are two very different boards and are great for different reasons. My dream board is the Werk One and can hopefully get one when they release a R2! That board SPOKE to me, it’s beautiful.
Is the keyboard market way overpriced?
tl;dr Yes
I am way too lazy to explain some of the points made so I’ll address more expensive boards and related topics.
-
Things on AliExpress are generally cheaper because you are likely buying directly from a manufacturer. Compare this to buying off a website, where they are trying to make higher profit margins. This one’s pretty easy to understand.
-
For your question asking for keyboard prices, it really varies whether a price is justified or not. In terms of plastics, I feel like the market fluctuates a lot more. You can buy cheap boards off of AliExpress or you can go for something more premium. As far as premium boards go, you are likely paying for better qc, design, and hype. Take the Bauer Lite for example. It’s a 120$ board which the price seems pretty justified for me. Many people loved the design and feel of the Bauer 1/2 and the Lite offers a relatively cheap alternative. Especially when you consider the rnd, it all seems to make sense.
Keyboards can keep getting expensive from here as well. At this point, you are probably paying for materials and machining as well. Not all boards are made of plastic - you will see many aluminum and copper types. I think the prices are somewhat justified because I personally have created some one off boards with CNC machines I have access to and it is expensive. If you make considerations for the vendors, manufacturers, and designers of the boards and pcbs it all starts to add up.
Obviously you’re getting diminishing returns but many people are willing to pay high prices for these boards.
- Keycap prices are really a mix of supply and demand + designs + qc. You are paying a premium for color matching, better legends etc. You can definitely buy clones off AliExpress but you likely aren’t getting as high quality goods etc. Once again, diminishing returns.
Wow thx u man. Maybe am I wrong but it is similar with sneakers hype? Starting of with the keycaps, I did not know there was a difference of quality, I thought that as far as they were made of PBT I was ok to go, if it is not like this could you give some websites where I could buy high quality keycaps (no more than 30$). As for the case and the example you gave, now I do understand how the price fluctuates, it is like buying some no branded shoe or a nike shoe am I right? (sorry for comparing but I am more used to sneaker stuff). I do understand however why sometimes the prices are well matched with the quality (hype a side). And now I would like to experience some premium experience, any good quality aluminium case with pcb mounted too that do not costs an eye of my face?
neo65, upcoming neo70, any of the qwertykeys products are pretty good entry level keebs for enthusiasts or you can get those cheap alu boards like hi75 or sugar65 from aliexpress
-
To make matters simple, yes keyboard accessories and components are definitely overpriced for what they are. The thing is that it’s completely understandable. It’s a very niche market with very little demand. When you manufacture large quantities the cost goes down and vice versa. So you end up paying a lot more than it seems you should be paying.
There are however some companies that considering the low amount of sales they are projecting (see previous argument) institute big markups to justify getting in the trouble of selling/manufacturing. This is the case with coiled cables which is a niche within the niche of the keyboard hobby. I know a lot of people who hate them and they literally serve no purpose.
In terms of keycaps, manufacturers like GMK produce less to drive demand up to artificially raise the prices. They are also a bit of a brand name in the hobby garnering enthusiasts who swear by them and will pay whatever. That said, comparing your AliExpress keycaps to the medium price range is impossible. Paying 60-80$ for a good quality set is worth it. I just got a 21kb set for 60$ for example. It’s a night and day difference compared to the AliExpress stuff.
As for the wooting60HE, the module’s price is 155$ (without switches or keycaps or the case) because the whole reason behind wooting dominating it’s competitors is the PCB and it’s software. Everything else is dirt cheap. But the pcb alone outperforms every gaming keyboard on the planet so it’s to be expected.
Xd
Please share links to the hot swappable 60% mechanical keyboard barbone kit. Does it have VIA support? Thanks in advanced
i’ve been in the hobby for about 2 years now. Never bought new since my first board (maybe one other time since they didn’t have what I wanted) saved myself a ton of money but also accumulated a ton that I would like to get rid of now :(
Exactly you could save tons of money, although now you want to get rid of it. I am sure that you enjoyed the little money you spent on this hobby :)
I thought it was crazy to spend more than a hundred dollars on a keyboard about six years ago. I’ve had every tier of build and I personally think you get what you pay for.
A nice heavy aluminum case makes it so the keyboard doesn’t move and it almost always sounds better than a plastic case. GMK and KAT keycaps have better grip, better acoustics, better durability than any set off aliexpress.
You built a keyboard and bought a cable and caps for under $100, so you kind of get what you pay for at that price point. I know I didn’t appreciate it until I went all in and did it proper.
My first keeb was the K600G from Machenike, it took a bunch of effort but it does sound and feel kinda perfect
Can you give the specs of your $53 keyboard?
I’ve been in this hobby since 2015 and at first I gawked at the price of custom keyboards back then. Even GMK sets at $100 a piece seemed insane to me and I choose to opt into building cheaper builds so. KBD Tofu was probably one of the cheapest and most available builds back then compared to now.
You don’t need to spend a lot of money to build a nice keyboard, but I do think once you’ve narrowed on the type of switches you enjoy the comes with a higher expense. If you want to go your own route and start lubing/customizing your favorite switches. You need a lot of time and money to buy the lube. But, I generally opt out on just buying them already l+f by someone else.
The other part of it too, is a lot of readily available keyboards just look the same. There isn’t anything wrong with that, but if you want something a little bit more special you’ll have to pay for it. For example, one of the TKL’s that really caught my eye was the Saevus Duality and that keyboard is around $600. Multiple parts, different weights, and the samples probably cost a lot. To me it’s basically a customizable piece of ‘art’ and I can those little things that I enjoy that make it my ‘own’ such as switches, stabs, and keycaps.
Hi, I see you ask about switch recommendations.
I type on tactile switches almost exclusively and I can recommend Gazzew Boba U4T, Panda Clones (Glorious, MMD/Feker), Gateron Anubis, and Tecsee Coffee Chip Ice Cream for equally as deep / deeper alternatives to Holy Panda. AFAIK they are less mainstream except for the first one. Mind that the tactility can be different, Holy Pandas have pre-travel before the bump hits, while Boba U4T bump will hit you immediately.
Linears I think SOTC sounds really good like marbles colliding but not as popular (at least around my area)
Although I have to mention that sounds also rely on the built of the board. Aside from the standards like plate and case materials, the weight, shape, also forms the sound. Keysets also affect this, in terms of their thickness, material, and profile (High Profiles such as SA/MT3 generally sounds deeper).
As for your post, I started with $50 full-sized non-hotswap mechanical keyboard. But here I am now with the so called “piece of arts” HHKB Layout Boards. For me, the sound and feel helps me calm down and focus when typing/writing codes/architecture, ofc aesthetics helps with being nice to look at.
Sorry for the wall of text.